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Subscribe to RSSBy Jessica Hopper, Dateline NBC
Eyewitnesses describe hearing what they thought was a young person in distress just before they heard the gunshot that killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.
“It sounded young. It didn’t sound like a grown man is my point. It sounded to me like someone was in distress and it wasn’t like a crying, sobbing boo-hoo, it was a definite whine,” Mary Cutcher told Dateline NBC’s Lester Holt in an interview scheduled to air Sunday night.
Martin’s death has sparked a national debate about racial profiling and the treatment of young black males. He was shot dead on Feb. 26 by neighborhood watch volunteer, George Zimmerman, while clutching a bag of Skittles and iced tea.
Zimmerman, 28, has not been arrested nor spoken publicly. An attorney representing Zimmerman, Craig Sonner, said the death of Trayvon Martin was a clear case of self-defense. The attorney told reporters that Zimmerman had suffered a broken nose and other injuries in an attack by Martin and maintained that his client was not a racist.
Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Lamilla, say they went outside when they heard the gunshot and saw Zimmerman standing over Martin.
“We both saw him straddling the body, basically, a foot on both sides of Trayvon’s body and his hands pressed on his back,” Cutcher said.
Cutcher says Zimmerman told her and her roommate to call the police.
“Zimmerman never turned him over or tried to help him or CPR or anything,” Cutcher said.
Lamilla said that after the shot was fired Zimmerman appeared to be pacing.
“He started walking back and forth like three times with his hand on the head and kind of, he was walking like kind of confused,” she said.
Lamilla said he was touching his head like “he was in shock.”
Police who responded to the scene noted that Zimmerman had injuries to his face and head.
When Lamilla was able to see who had been shot, she was stunned.
“And for me was a shock to see, ‘Oh my God, that it’s a kid. So skinny, no more than 20- years- old. So skinny, like baby faced,” Lamilla said.
Trayvon Martin’s Parents Fighting for Justice
For Trayvon’s parents, the anger that the man responsible for their son’s death has not been arrested or charged is palpable.
“George Zimmerman went home that night of the shooting, took a shower, relaxed his thoughts, slept in his bed. My son was wheeled off to the medical examiner 40 miles…away in a body bag with a John Doe toe tag,” Trayvon’s father, Tracy Martin, told Dateline in his first in-depth interview.
Martin and Trayvon’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, say that they are fighting for “simple justice.”
“We hope for arrest. We want arrest. At least let him stand before his peers and be judged by a judge and jury,” said Fulton of Zimmerman.
Martin said the authorities told him his son’s death was the result of an “altercation” between Trayvon and Zimmerman.
“He got a bag of skittles, iced tea, his phone and $22 in his pocket. What kind of harm would he do to a 28-year-old, 250 pound man with that [a gun] in his pocket,” Martin said.
For Martin’s mother, one of the 911 calls released by police resounds in her head. On the recording, a voice can be heard crying for help prior to the sound of a gunshot.
“There’s no question that was my baby’s voice. He was saying, ‘Help, Help me,” Fulton said through tears.
In their pursuit of justice, Trayvon’s parents have crisscrossed the country this week drawing attention to the way their son died, but in an interview with Dateline NBC, they remembered how their son lived.
“The life that he was living was, it was, he was headed on the right path,” Martin said.
Fulton, remembers when Trayvon’s voice seemingly deepened overnight and the summer when he was 15 and sprouted two strands of hair on his chin.
“He just wanted to, you know, mature and he wanted to be a man and he was almost there,” Fulton said.
Tray, as his parents called him, dreamed of going to college, loved to travel and was looking forward to prom this spring. On the cusp of manhood, his father says he had had “deep conversations” with him about entering adulthood.
“I was letting him know that he was a representation of our family and how he should conduct himself as a Martin,” Trayvon’s father said.
Martin said “it’s bogus” to think that his son would have approached Zimmerman’s vehicle and provoked him.
“Knowing my son who I’ve raised, who we’ve raised for 16 plus years, he would no way, no way approach a vehicle that he didn’t know who was in that vehicle,” Martin said.
George Zimmerman “Sauntered” Neighborhood With Gun and Rottweiler
Zimmerman has not spoken publicly since the shooting, but his father defended him in a letter published in the Orlando Sentinel.
Robert Zimmerman wrote in the letter published Mar. 15 that his son, “George is a Spanish-speaking minority with many black friends and family members. He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever.”
Neighbors describe Zimmerman as a portly young man who walked casually through the neighborhood with his rottweiler and a gun.
“He had a rottweiler and he’d just saunter on through the neighborhood,” neighbor Frank Taaffe told Dateline.
Taaffe described Zimmerman as someone who was diligent and committed to his role patrolling the neighborhood.
“He liked being a watch captain. If it lent itself to being a pseudo law enforcement officer, then so be it,” Taaffe said.
Taaffe said that Zimmerman moved to the neighborhood in 2009. Taaffe said that there had been an increase in burglaries in the neighborhood and that Zimmerman volunteered for the neighborhood watch job.
“George is a very amiable, congenial man,” Taaffe said. “He didn’t show up to our HOA [Homeowners’ Association] meetings, you know, dressed out like Charles Bronson or Rambo and you know, he was a very down to earth guy.”
He described him as being more like Sheriff Andy Taylor of Mayberry than Rambo and said that portrayals of him as a “vigilante killer” are unfair.
“He was portly. He wasn’t Rambo. He wasn’t Bernhard Goetz trying to jump on a subway looking for trouble. He was not looking for you, you know, African Americans with screwdrivers. That wasn’t George,” Taaffe said.
Taaffe said that Zimmerman relished his role patrolling the neighborhood and thwarted a potential burglary at Taaffe’s home. Over the years, Zimmerman made more than 40 calls to police.
Neighbor Ibrahim Rashada said that he knew Zimmerman carried a gun.
“At that time, you know, I was, like, you know, it’s good that we do have a neighborhood watch. I thought it was more of a team of guys, not just one person, but I thought that he was okay. I didn’t think he was out to get no one,” Rashada said.
...
Editor’s note: Lester Holt reports from Sanford, Florida, tonight at 7pm/6c on Dateline NBC. For additional reporting on the Trayvon Martin case, visit our partners at The Grio (http://www.TheGrio.com)
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Latest Facts: The sanford police, the county DA and the state DA's have an eye witness who says it was the other way around. That's the reason no charges were placed against the mexican in the first place. Also The Black Panther Party, cash bounty for the mexican arrest, is against the law. State DA's office is looking into that now.
donald are you just a liar or just paranoid ! Zimmerman is not Mexican ! when was the last time you saw a Mexican Zimmerman ?
Mexican? You're a sad individual
umm that's just a stupid comment. Last names mean nothing now a days.
@Donald,
The so-called "witness" is an English teacher who lived in the complex. The police officer that took her statement "corrected" it to say that it was Zimmerman calling for help. She says she stated then and still maintains that it was NOT Zimmeriam's voice calling for help, but instead was Martin's.
@schooldog,
Zimmerman is indeed a Latino. You can't judge a book by its title either. German and French surnames are common in Mexico and German names throughout much of South America because both the French and Germans ruled Mexico at various times.
My wife is a PhD research psychologist. A student, I think one of her grad students, did a poster session at a conference in which he analyzed Alabama Concealed Carry Permit holders. Since there is very little data contained on the actual permit, one would suppose that there would be very little to find. But to the contrary the findings were both solid and telling.
The average Alabama Concealed Carry Permit holder is white, obese, and almost three inches shorter than average. It is the archetypal insecure fat neurotic loser with a "short guy" chip on his shoulder. Psychologists refer to handguns among themselves as "penis extenders" and this pretty much seems to cover it.
George ZIMMERMAN is not a Mexican. His mother is Peruvian and his father is white American. History lesson: Spanish is a European language and culture. Europeans are white. Spain invaded Peru and brought the Spanish language. George Zimmerman is a white guy who has parents of two different white cultures.
George Zimmerman called Trayvon Martin a coon in the south and then a few minutes later, Trayvon was dead. This is a hate crime. George Zimmerman is NOT slick. Calling the police in advance to committing murder to cover oneself does not excuse the murder.
But on to your statement. It does seem interesting that the police department is so interested in convicting people for expressing outrage. White man kills a child, he goes home. Black man expresses outrage about it, he goes to jail.
Interesting.
Zimmerman's not part Mexican. You got that major fact wrong why believe you about anything else?
To posters who responded to poster Donald Spake "the mexican" comment, I am 100% against what Donald said. But think about your responses. He called Zimmerman what he thought was his ethnic background just because he spoke Spanish. His phrasing of "the mexican" depicts racism towards Mexicans.
For the posters who responded to Donald, I am not sure if you are against Mexicans. Because If your not, I have to point out your posts sounded just as bad as Donald's. You had to point out Zimmerman is not a Mexican. Do you know what I mean? Poster John Sixty did inform us Zimmerman's is part Peruvian and part white America. But what if he was Mexican? Would that make it worse?
Chris said, "The so-called "witness" is an English teacher who lived in the complex. The police officer that took her statement..."
Wrong witness, Chris. You are referring to the witness who did not see anything. You hear about her on MessNBC because her story fits the agenda. The eyewitness that saw the fighting is going by the name John. I'm not going to give HIS account of the fight, because MessNBC readers are obviously trying to avoid the eyewitness account and I don't want to frighten them with any facts that contradict the MessNBC storyline.
If any of you want to read about the eyewitness's account, just Google "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911". But be careful, you're not going to like what the eyewitness has to say. Nope. You're not going to
Chris said, "The so-called "witness" is an English teacher who lived in the complex. The police officer that took her statement..."
Wrong witness, Chris. You are referring to the witness who did not see anything. You hear about her on MessNBC because her story fits the agenda. The eyewitness that saw the fighting is going by the name John. I'm not going to give HIS account of the fight, because MessNBC readers are obviously trying to avoid the eyewitness account and I don't want to frighten them with any facts that contradict the MessNBC storyline.
If any of you want to read about the eyewitness's account, just Google "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911". But be careful, you're not going to like what the eyewitness has to say. Nope. You're not going to like it at all. ROFL!
Donald you are correct about the eyewitness account, but you need to realize that MessNBC readers are not going to be aware of any facts that discount the agenda driven reporting they get at MessNBC. That's why they have such a limited source for the lack of information.
Now, I don't think you should refer to Zimmerman as a 'Mexican' just because he is Hispanic. Let's look at what his father reported in the letter that has almost certainly not been reported by MessNBC:
"George is a Spanish-speaking minority with many black family members and friends." ~ George Zimmerman's father
Max I am not finding anything about that witness by the google search you claimed, maybe you would care to produce an actual link to this so-called eyewitness of yours?
I think the incongruities in Zimmerman's story, when compared to the actual 911 calls where you can hear an obvious youngster's voice screaming for help and the transcript from the telephonic conversation between Martin and his girlfriend, are enough to place Zimmerman in the wrong, whether it was a hate crime or racially motivated is of no concern but Zimmerman does need to be arrested and charged with, at the very least, manslaughter in the 1st degree.
Just watched the story - uh, Max171717...very obviously, you are the one with the 'wrong witness'. While I admit I didn't note their names, I can assure you neither of the _female— eyewitnesses in the story were named 'John'. I honestly don't care about the race/ethnicity of anyone involved in this crime - the (undisputed) fact is that an unarmed CHILD was killed for NO valid reason.
Nikkal I agree with you that it doesn't matter weather or not one was black and the other was white, mexican or whatever. The main fact is that a young boy with his whole life ahead of him was shot dead for no reason. Why just because he had his hood up??
Why did it take until now for the information that Zimmerman had a broken nose and a cut on the back of his head from the confrontation? Its like letting a camp fire spread into a forest fire before you even try to put it out.
Schooldog: Zimmerman's mother is Mexican, his father and American, hence the non-hispanic last name. Wake up. So, he is of mixed race.
Donald Spake Get your facts straight. This murderers father was white and mother Hispanics.
Where does Mexican come from?.
Mary Richardson,
Did you even read the stupid article? You act like Martin did nothing but ask why he was being followed before he was shot. The evidence proves otherwise:
"The attorney told reporters that Zimmerman had suffered a broken nose and other injuries in an attack by Martin". There are witnesses that saw Martin deck Zimmerman. And oh, Martin was no longer a child, as the photos show when he was around 12 years old. He was now 17 years old. A young man that, I am sure no longer sounds like a child.
These facts will be ignored by Martin's family, I am sure.
Bottom line....it doesn't matter what happened..had Zimmerman never left his car, Martin would not be dead. He couldn't have been scared for his life or he never would have got out of his car. He didn't see any crime being commited, he just ASSUMED that this kid was up to know good. He even said that in the 911 tape, saying he thought he was on drugs and looking at houses. Also no one, not even the police know for sure what happened. Zimmerman could have lied to the police, no one knows for sure. The witnesses didn't even see everything that happened and neither did anyone else. Zimmerman made the inital mistake of assuming that a kid walking down the street was on drugs and up to no good, got out of his car to follow. He should pay for the choices he made that night. I hope this will be a lesson for all the those who are in neighborhood Watch programs.... Watch only, call the police and let them handle any problems. An innocent kid is dead, because Zimmerman could not follow the rules.
Everybody on this post is performing opinion over true law. Where any of you actually an eye witness to the crime.? Did any of you actually interview anyone involved with the crime? did any of you actually review the physical evidence? OH THATS RIGHT your all monday morning water cooler lawyers with a degree in assumption. PLEASE enough with the opinion poll. Unless you have real facts not just whatever propogandized load of crap you read on website yada yada Dont make decisions on your own. The amazing part is all you bloggers on this site are what our judicial system depend on for Jurors. WOW if thats not scary, a group of uninformed monday morning lawyers and you are the hope of our judicial system. Gee I pray I never get in trouble and have to depend on any of the people in this forum to decide my fate, seeing as how you all have played Judge Jury and executor without one TRUE shred of evidence other than whatever propoganda you read on Fox, MSNBC etc. REMEMBER ONE DAY YOU MIGHT BE THE CONVICTED. Would you really want to depend on the public decision if you are all so readily convinced of innocence or guilt without really using your brain and actually accumilating VALID details before coming to a decision that would affect a persons life.
It does not matter what color George Zimmerman is ( Mexican or White), the act that he committed was blood murder. It was also a hate crime.
To the Fox and others that can't find the eyewitness account. YouTube "Trayvon Martin-The Truth". It is the actual news story from Florida before all this blew up nationwide. The reporter talks to the eyewitness who isn't shown but is called John and he talks about the altercation.
These two "witnesses" have changed their story since giving their statement to police, THEY ARE STRAIGHT UP LYING LIKE A COUPLE OF DOGS. They are looking for a little fame and by taking the family side and changing their story they are getting just that. Hope they get sued right along with Martins and their lawyer.
The one question that still bothers me is why was he in the morgue for a couple of days. The cops had his cell phone. Did that phone ever ring in those days? There is a lot of conflicting info about this mess.
Yes, A LOT of conflicting info. People need to step back and let the investigation take its course. I suspect when the dust settles, we'll see both sides had a role to play in this tragedy. From what I've read so far, Zimmerman was overzealous and Martin was no saint.
Sally, the police don't solve crimes that happen to black people in small towns. I am not just saying it, I've experienced it. You have to remember, criminal justice degrees are fairly new. Many veteran cops in high positions don't even have a 12th grade education.
They don't have psychology classes. They're not self-aware. They didn't go through extensive mental evaluation. They're neurotic and paranoid.
The other question one has to ask: Zimmerman actually did go to community college (they asked him not to return) so he does have some psychology classes. But why with his training was he not allowed to enter the police dept? Was he too fat? Did he not pass the current mental exams? Is he crazy? Why is he not in the police department?
@AG99,
There will be very little evidence to be pursued in this case. The shooting took place in the rain and the Sanford police, at the specific orders of its police chief, collected NO evidence at the scene. The rain took care of it since then. Evidence that was collected, such as the shell casing that a bystander turned in are so contaminated that they cannot be used as evidence. They failed to test Zimmerman for alcohol and drugs as is required by Florida Law. The police "corrected" the statements of several witnesses to say that it was Zimmerman crying and calling for help. The officer doing the correcting was a friend of the cop whose son was caught on camera beating a homeless man.
On the right path? He was serving a 10 day suspension from his High School where he was regarded as a bully to other kids. What did he do to get a 10 day suspension? That's two full weeks out of school, must have been pretty serious, no one will report on it.
How did Zimmerman get a broken nose and laceration on the back of his head? When the evidence shows that Zimmerman was attacked from behind by Trayvon while Zimmerman was walking back to his car and had his head slammed into the ground will Zimmerman get an apology?
where do you people get this stuff at Limbaugh or Beck or some other racist from fox news ? just plain lies ! the interview with his principle on the today show (and you can certainly look it up ) said he was and outstanding student and person ! so where did you get your false information ?
Mike- Proof please that Martin was a bully? Do you want to talk about Zimmermans attack on a policeman? Domestic violence? His 46 calls to 911, many about black men?
They are goin gto try to diminish the worth of thei young man's life by destroying his reputation with lies and innuendo. There is absolutley nothing to suggest that Trayvon was a problem to anyone. We certainly know from the 911 tapes that he was not a problem to Zimmerman. Zimmerman made him a problem.
THis kid was set up, pure and simple. Zimmerman followed him, created an altercation and now wants to use that as justification for killing an unarmed, and innocent kid who was where he was supposed to be and roughly 200 feet from his father's girlfriend's house whom he was visiting. This child had gone out to get Skittles for his father's fiance's son.
If there was an altercation, it was precipitated by Zimmerman. Trayvon was simply standing his ground.
Trayvon had a right to defend himself from some weirdo following him around. If Zimmerman got hit it or beat up its only because he was acting in a threatening manner. Zimmerman was the AGGRESSOR in this confrontation.
I've heard it was only a 5 day suspension and it was because he had been late for class a couple of times.
the suspension was due to tardiness (ha I never got suspended in h.s. and I ditched class regularly and forged excuse notes) but then I'm a white girl
salsa chick, and you're proud of this. I wonder what kind of job you have.
excellent post, liberal gun owner.
Repubs think all on the left are staunchly anti-2nd amendment or anti gun
I'd say most lefties aren't against the constitution, they want controls. You take some tests, have to show some responsibility and skill in most states in order to drive (you have insurance backing you up in alot of places as well). A car can be a deadly weapon in the wrong hands...that's why. So I'm for gun background checks.
In another story on this site it said he was suspended for having a empty bag that once contained marijuana.
Everybody on this post is performing opinion over true law. Where any of you actually an eye witness to the crime.? Did any of you actually interview anyone involved with the crime? did any of you actually review the physical evidence? OH THATS RIGHT your all monday morning water cooler lawyers with a degree in assumption. PLEASE enough with the opinion poll. Unless you have real facts not just whatever propogandized load of crap you read on website yada yada Dont make decisions on your own. The amazing part is all you bloggers on this site are what our judicial system depend on for Jurors. WOW if thats not scary, a group of uninformed monday morning lawyers and you are the hope of our judicial system. Gee I pray I never get in trouble and have to depend on any of the people in this forum to decide my fate, seeing as how you all have played Judge Jury and executor without one TRUE shred of evidence other than whatever propoganda you read on Fox, MSNBC etc. REMEMBER ONE DAY YOU MIGHT BE THE CONVICTED. Would you really want to depend on the public decision if you are all so readily convinced of innocence or guilt without really using your brain and actually accumilating VALID details before coming to a decision that would affect a persons life.
"He wasn’t Rambo. He wasn’t Bernhard Goetz trying to jump on a subway looking for trouble. He was not looking for you, you know, African Americans with screwdrivers."
I think the guy who said this probably has trouble remembering what happened in old movies and what happened in reality. He might be confusing Bernhard Goetz with Charles Bronson. Seems very typical of our current world where "reality" and scripted entertainment have become interchangeable.
You took the words right out of my keyboard. Bernhard Goetz was hardly a man that jumped on a subway looking for trouble, he was an elderly man who kept getting harrassed by young thugs everytime he tried to take public transportation. He got sick of being robbed and finally took care of it when it was about to happen again. In any case, his story doesn't even fit here.
The posters who continue to try to quibble about self-defense here need only to listen to the 911 calls from Zimmerman to dispatch, where he is profiling Trayvon and itching for a confrontation, despite being advised not to. If Zimmerman starts the confrontation with the young man, and the young man fights back, I'm still not clear as to why Zimmerman is protected by law for shooting him. And, for those who are attacking Trayvon's character...why is that an issue? Zimmerman had no idea if this was a good kid or a bad kid. By all accounts, to include his own, this kid was walking down the street and had the nerve to look at houses as he passed by. What was he supposed to be looking at? Good grief. May peace be brought to the family and the community and may justice prevail soon.
I am sorry the young man died. But, the parents should of let thepolice and the investertors really do their job instead of running on Tv causing walkouts and calling this a racial thing. The truth will come out if they just let the right people do their job .Martin had been in troule with drugs that is whty he was with his dad. The man was doing his job trying to patrol the area. HE GOT BEAT UPFIRST ZIMMERMAN. EVERYONE JUST NEED TO BACK AWAY and let the law see everything. Zimmerman would never get a fair trail because of all that has happened.
Ruthangel - questions: why would anyone think that the police are going to do their jobs when they have already failed to do so? They did not investigate this crime or the offender the night it occurred. After listening to the 911 tapes, how could they justify self-defense? So, based on your logic - because Zimmerman had a broken nose, that is an indication that he was attacked? What would you do if someone pulled a gun on you? Particularly when that person had been following you - would you not fight? Where was Martin's right to defend himself - or did he fore go that right because he was a young, black male wearing a hoodie in a gated community? What makes Martin more culpable than Zimmerman? Further, based on the fact that Zimmerman was told by the 911 dispatcher NOT to confront the individual and he did so anyway definitely implies that he "intended" to confront Martin no matter what anyone said - why is that? What were his motivations. Now, I don't know about you, but if I see a "suspicious-looking" person "walking" in my neighborhood, I am definitely NOT going to confront him - especially after being told not to.
Many blacks have been incarcerated for crimes in which the "truth" has remained elusive - until DNA or someone else finally admitted to the crime. For example, what about the teens who were CONVICTED in the NY jogger case - only for another person to be found guilty after the teens had spent MANY years in prison or Earl Washington in Virginia, who spent 33 years in prison for a crime he did not commit among numerous others. So, if you choose to keep believing that the "truth" will come out, you go right ahead - but I would venture to say that there are too many blacks who have been imprisoned or the families of those who received the death penalty that are still searching for that all-illusive "truth". Trust that if Martin's parents had not brought attention to this issue, this incident would not have even created a bump in the carpet that it would have been swept under... Truth; Justice -- according to whom???
First off, let me just say it is an absolute tragedy what happened to that young man.
With that being said, people need to tone down the race issue. If it were a white teenager in a hoodie, there would be no marches or public outcries.
But, it wasn't a white teenager in a hoodie. The only reason there is a 17 year-old dead kid is because he was BLACK and wearing a hoodie (and the hoodie is an afterthought). That's the whole f'ing point of these marches and public outcries. These are needed to make people like you aware of the racism that still exists today. If Martin was white, 1) he'd probably still be alive. Or, 2) Zimmerman would've AT LEAST been taken in for questioning, and 3) the boys family would've been notified immediately.
Everything about how this event stinks of prejudice, racism, bias. I'm not sure what your point is.
Many of us, for good historical reason, believe had this been a white kid there would not have been a dead teenager and if there had been the police might have done their work. Certainly the body would not have been a "John Doe" for three days on a morgue slab. Now you might call that speculation but no less than yours is. Before you all jump in with the Zimmerman was Hispanic canard, if he was or wasn't it makes not a bit of difference.
When wearing a hoodie at night, it makes it rather difficult to identify someone, let alone their race. I'm white and married to a black woman in the south. You think for a second I don't know that racism still exists? We experience it daily.
Many experts say more evidence would be needed that he harbored racial prejudice against black people and went after Martin for that reason alone. There had previously been burglaries in the complex committed by young black males, possibly heightening Zimmerman’s suspicions when he spotted Martin. Stop pulling the race card. If a 6"2-6"3 man in a hoodie (as in hood up) is walking through my neighborhood at night I would be suspicious too, black OR white.
Should Zimmerman have been taken into custody? Absolutely. No argument there.
@LOGICisEZ123
Is this the only article you read about the case? Zimmerman clearly knew Martin's race and commented about it to the police. And, it was RAINING. People wear hoods in the rain. Stop coming up with scenarios in your head to make Zimmerman look innocent.
But, I will agree that the investigation needs to be completed. Just not by the local police.
Zimmerman killed an innocent young man. It is deplorable. I have no arguments about that.
It's called neighborhood "WATCH", not neighborhood "scuffle with the young man and shoot him in the chest." I'm not outraged that a young black man was killed. I am outraged that a YOUNG MAN was killed simply walking home from the store, period. Race should have nothing to do with it.
What I AM saying is, if it were a white kid and black man had shot him, you wouldn't have white people marching throughout the country. I don't believe it was an issue of race. It is an issue of statistics. If there are several burglaries in a particular neighborhood and all the suspects arrested or identified are black, then UNFORTUNATELY, if you are young black male walking through said neighborhood at night, you do in fact look suspicious.
Let me give you an example since you seem not to understand. If green skin colored men were arrested several times breaking into homes in a neighborhood, seeing a green skin colored man walking through the same neighborhood at night would raise suspicions. Is it Trayvon's fault that other young black males broke into homes in that neighborhood? No, not at all. Does it make him a person of interest while walking through the neighborhood at night? Yes. Sad but true.
@ LOCIGisEZ123
I think it's you that doesn't seem to understand. That makes a person a racist - judging an entire race based on the few. Using your flawed example of statistics, I wouldn't automatically think a young black male walking through the neighborhood not doing anything suspicious is guilty of being suspicious. If he were casing a place, then yes. And, I would think that regardless of race. But, as far as what we know right now, Martin was not doing anything suspicious other than being black and wearing a hoodie.
It's obvious you're incorrigible. So, believe what you will.
No Sir or Madam, and as my name states, it's Logic. Easy as 1-2-3. If the last several people arrested and identified for burglary in that neighborhood were young black males, logic suggests a young black male walking through the neighborhood at night would in turn become suspicious due to the actions of others. Pretty simple concept. If the last several people arrested in that neighborhood for burglary were white, a young white male would be viewed as suspicious walking through the neighborhood. Why people like you have to make it about race is beyond me.
Was Zimmerman wrong? 100% without a doubt yes. He should be in jail as we speak.
A neighborhood watch is exactly that, a WATCH, meaning to observe only. What Zimmerman saw was someone who fits the description of previous individuals that had committed crimes in that neighborhood. Not "uh oh, here's a black kid! This means trouble!" So many people like you are quick to jump on the bandwagon that because he's black he must have been singled out purely on that alone. It's because of the actions of others that happen to have the same skin color as Trayvon that caused him to be looked upon with suspicion. If you view people as PEOPLE not white, black, etc, it makes sense. But because he's black it automatically makes it racism?
I was asked the other day by a young black man, probably no more than 20-23 years old with his buddies, when walking into a movie theater with my wife, "Why you gotta steal our bitches yo? Stick with your own cracker!" While we get things like that yelled at us all the time, we both know we're better than that. We're not small minded people which makes it easy for us to just let it go. Yes my wife is black and I am white. But I view her as a beautiful WOMAN, period. The color of her skin is irrelevant. If she were orange with blue pinstripes it wouldn't matter. I'm not in love with her for the color of her skin. It is people like the media and yourself that feel if the color of skin is different that it has to be an issue. It is not. It's not the black race, or white race, etc, it's the HUMAN RACE.
That's pretty ...annoying etc ignorant...I don't know...that the black young man said it to you.I'd have some feelings about that one if it were me...and also understand some of the things that might be behind it. It sure doesn't help move things forward. I'm in the Northeast, when I dated an African man (I'm white) I didn't get anything said to me, but in some circles from older people only as far as I noticed I got a longer look it was a social event, not in public. No one ever did anything in public. I live in a city, though, that's diverse (this was in the early nineties). Location matters, clearly...and that I am a woman I suppose. My partner never noticed anything either.
This is what can happen in a state with the most lenient 'open carry' laws, coupled with young men with grandiose mindsets and self-appointed status as 'watchmen' with rottweiler dogs, and 'stand and defend' laws in place. You have a recipe for manslaughter and death of innocent people.
But I guess this is what the Florida legislature wants. No other way to see it.
Appointed yourself Judge and Jury have you? Would you want the same justice for yourself or loved ones? Let's least hear all the facts before getting the noose tied in the rope.
Yes, John is soo right. Look at the City of Chicago! Gun's are OUT LAWED! NO one can own a gun! We are the safest city in the country! Use Chicago as an examlple for gun laws! NO one has been killed here in ..... SECONDS.
John, beautifully said. I coudln't agree more. It is the worst recipe. An insecure man with a self inflated image of his self appointed duty. A ridiculous law that is open-ended allowing for any individual carrying a gun to claim "self defense" on anyone they shoot. An African American male who, thanks to our media, is instantly considered a criminal. You mix them together and this is what you get. So sad.
This isn't a problem of laws, the law was clearly violated. This is a problem of police corruption, if the police had charged Zimmerman this wouldn't even be news. A law is only as good as the police enforcing it.
As a responsible gun owner I think Zimmerman should be thrown UNDER the jail, he represents the worst kind of example of gun owner and should be held accountable for his reckless actions.
Does anyone one have common sense ?
Very few.
Wow Mike, what a disgusting comment. A young boy is dead and he had NO WEAPON. Zimmerman is a wannabe cop obviously with ill intent. You're telling me that skinny 17 year old kid was a threat to a over 200 lb. MAN WITH A GUN??? Morons like you don't deserve to speak freely.
And when the evidence shows it happened exactly like I said that Zimmerman was walking back to his car and attacked from behind what will you say? Zimmerman is 5'6, Trayvon is 6'2, this idea that Zimmerman was much larger is BS from the media. Trayvon was 6'2 6'3 and on his football team.
How did Zimmerman get a broken nose and a laceration on his head?
From Trayvon Martin defending himself, maybe?
Maybe his Rottwieler dog beat him up for not taking him along that night.
Maybe Martin was standing his ground against the agressor Zimmerman, but didn't have a gun.
mike lol everyone's data is off, yours too
one--Wikipedia says that Zimmerman was 5 feet 9...that is NINE not Six...you are VERY far off.
two--as far as I know Trayvon played MIDDLE SCHOOL football he was NOT on the highschool team. See point three for proof
three-Trayvon, though tall (he'd recently shot up--growth spurt) was SKINNY. He weighte 140 lbs only according to Wikipedia. NO WAY he could have played HS football even if he wanted to..which he didn't. Not even quaterback. the wind would have knocked him down. His nickname was "slim" or something like that. (forget which "thin word" it was)
Four Zimmerman at 5 9 weighed 250 lbs. He outweighted Trayvon by over 100lbs.
So, the picture is mixed. Trayvon did not have a child's body any more, but Many people of Zimmermans' size would not be outmatched by such a lightwt either. It also depend on Zimmermans' build...many overwt men of his statistics could be quite beefy and muscular also (unlike Trayvon). His neck looks like one of those types in the picture...but we can't be sure. He did want to go into law inforcement and was a young guy at 28 so presumably he wasn't ALL FLAB.
you opinions are fine, lets just not post the wrong facts. Go to the Wikpedia page and see for yourself.
with all due respect I saw Hoyce Gracie (5'6" about 130 lbs) take down Tank Murdock (6' ish about 210 lbs) in all of about 8 minutes in a then unregulated cage fight. Are you going to tell me that Trayvon being over 6 ft and 150 ish couldnt possibly do harm to Zimmerman who is at least 4 inches shorter and a large overweight out of shape 250. Please size isnt always the factor. A lean tall muscular in shape man could easily do harm to a short portly out of shape man any day of the week. What counts is not their weight and height but questions like How often have they been in street fights? Did either of them have special training, IE: Boxing, martial arts, etc. Again monday morning water cooler Lawyers making assumptions without having any real facts. Im not saying that Zimmerman couldnt have beat Trayvon, Im simply saying that it is impossible to assume that Trayvon couldnt have injured Zimmerman just using height and weight as your only factual data.
Laurali: You noted that:
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Did you guys here about the two young white British men stalked and murdered in cold blood by a black teenager in a black neighborhood? Yeah didn't think so... Happens all the time, black on white crime is about 1000 times more frequent than white on black crime but don't let the facts get in the way of your race baiting whining.
This was NOT a white area anyway, it was only 49% white and heavily black and hispanic, the shooter was Mexican NOT white. Trayvon Martin was not a 5'4 120 lb kid, he was 6'2 on his football team and much older than he's being shown in the media.
You're a racist cracker and your comments are irrelevant. Nobody should be able to walk away from a killing with the weapon and noforensic evidence collected.
The big difference here is that the black teenager WAS CHARGED WITH MURDER not let go and covered up.
@ Mike.D34
Comparing apples to oranges. But, I'll bite. I bet you the black kid was immediately taken into custody, if not arrested. Based on your comments, you sir are a closet racist. What does Martin's height, weight, and sport, and the demographics of his neighborhood have to do with anything? The fact of the matter is that the only reason Martin was accosted was because he was black.
And you say 'only 49% white' like that's inconsequential. That's a huge % for one race. Regardless, I can't say that I believe you. Please provide a source for this statistic. Based on you calling Zimmerman a Mexican, I'm gonna say that you probably don't know your facts.
There isn't a single stat on your post that is correct. Most violent crimes are within the same race. This country has a long and sorry, well documented history of violent crime perpetrated by a segment of the majority whites on the black minority meant to intimidate and instill fear. (Is it beyond your imagination what fear might have been in Trayvon's mind that night while being stalked?) The most likely targeted group for violence is not racial but gender, women fall victim to men (who feel entitled) at an appalling rate. Jumping the Atlantic for your failed comparison was rather a long reach. Was that meant as a tit-for-tat or all things being equal let's just shoot each other?
Zimmerman was not Mexican, he is of European Cuban ethnicity. Mexican is not a race, it's a national origin or ethnicity. Based on a persons biological heritage they could be Mexican and caucasian, black, native indigenous or even asian. Based on Zimmerman's biological background he would be categorized as caucasian, or white as you know it. Did you miss anthropology in school?
Trayvon was "much older" as you put it... yes he was 17. He was also unarmed, in his own neighborhood, alone and being stalked by a stranger who confronted him against the advice of the police dispatcher.
Trayvon is a real victim, you sir are a victim or your own imagination.
49% white? ok, I will go with that. That would suggest that minorities live in the neighborhood and the presence of a young Black Man should not have been that odd. Yet Mr. Zimmerman singled him out and followed him through the neighborhood. If you profile someone solely on race, what would you call it?
"Neighbors describe Zimmerman as a portly young man who walked casually through the neighborhood with his rottweiler and a gun." REALLY?!?!?!? If I saw guy like that who made a habit out of strolling around MY neighborhood with a Rottweiler and a firearm, it would be ME calling the police and telling them to get the hell over here and find out what's up with a guy like THAT. I don't WANT untrained private citizens with a weapon and delusions of law enforcement grandeur walking through my neighborhood. And, despite all the excuses being made for him, the guy's plainly lying about what took place.
He was suspended from school so that makes him a bully? Please quit preaching the fantasy's and hate of Glenn Beck and faux noise. Don't put any blame on Martin, if Zimmerman received injuries, it was from Martin defending himself from attack from a 250pd stalker. Why did he have a gun to confront a teenager, who's only crime was walking while black?
3359530, and you KNOW all this how? MSNBC? We need more of the Glenn Beck's in this world. Not afraid of speaking the truth. Get off the racist soapbox. Most of us are sick of listening to it!!
Zimmerman is a little 5'6 fata$$ he isn't some 250 lbs monster, Trayvon was considerably larger than him. And how do you know the gun was even out? How do you know Trayvon didn't hit Zimmerman in the back of the head (causing the laceration) then pummel him and the gun came out, Trayvon went for it and got shot? Really you have no clue what happened do you? You won't even entertain any evidence, you've convicted Zimmerman without knowing any of the facts, that makes you a vigilante no better than what you accuse Zimmerman of doing.
And I'm coming after you, you ninny !
Your fantasy scenario leaves out an important fact reported by all the witnesses: Trayvon was heard calling for help in a frightened voice. At what point in your story did that cry for help by the victim occur?
And he probably peeed his pants because he knows where he's going !!!!!!!!!
and so it goes... no mention of the other witnesses or the witness named John who saw Martin beating the #$@#$ out of Zimmerman, or that Zimmerman ended up going to the hospital. Also, no mention that as far as I have heard they have determined that the voice screaming help on the tape is actually Zimmerman or the fact that the pictures of Treyvon are really old and do not reflect his being 6'3". I have to admit we will not know all the facts until this goes to court. Do I think Zimmerman was a cop wanna be that should have not been bothering Martin and that Zimmerman is going to have to answer in court for what happened (Yes, I do), but I think the media is stirring this up for their own benefit.
I wish they could just lock Zimmerman up somewhere (solitary, psych ward, or etc) as they go through the evidence and figure this out. If I were Treyvon's parents I would not want the man who killed my son running free. However, a lot of the media (MSNBC and CNN) seem to be pushing an agenda.
I know that my first thoughts when I read the articles were of a tiny black child murdered by a white racist. Then it turns out the white racist is Hispanic (both his father and mother with his step father being Caucasian not that this should matter) and who knows if he is racist (the sound bite is only 1.6 sec long and garbled it could have been bleeping cons not the racial word). The tiny little kid is actually 6'3" and he was seen by a witness (prior to all the media frenzy and you can hear the witness on video) who said he was beating the @#$# out of Zimmerman as Zimmerman screamed for help with Zimmerman having a broken nose and wounds and having to go to the hospital.
I hope the special prosecutor gets going and gets some resolution for Martin's family as well as Zimmerman's family. Personally, I am going to just stop reading all the frenzy until they can reach a point where all the evidence can be seen and brought forward.
You won't see much evidence since the police didn't bother to collect it. I've never heard of a shooter walkingaway from the scene with his gun. No forensic evidence was collected. This is a farce of justice.
if any of that is true, why would it surprise anyone if Trayvon started fighting the guy who chased him down with a gun? There is NO DOUBT of the fact that Zimmerman got out of his car, was not being threatened in anyway, and decided to follow and then run after T
@remy1b I doubt Treyvon saw a gun or he would not have ended up fighting with Zimmerman. Fighting with a short fat idiot who appears to be stalking you is one thing; fighting with a short fat idiot with a gun is something else entirely. I agree that Zimmerman should not have been bothering Treyvon. There is a lot to answer for here and a young man is dead because of it. My issue with the media is they seem to be putting out partial information in an attempt to whip up the public. Maybe this was necessary to keep it from being swept under a rug. However, now that there is a special prosecutor I hope all the available information will be looked at. I think the media should keep on the pressure but stop putting out partial information.
Zimmerman did not go to the hospital after the event, his own attorney said as much. He went to a doctor long after and needed not attention as whatever undocumented injury (police did not document with photos) he had was already healed.
It's understandable that you are upset by the lack of coherent information in this case but the blame really falls at the doorstep of the Sanford Police Department. What little investigation they did has been released in dribs and drabs and appears to be done so to put the best light on them and Zimmerman. And even then the light isn't all that flattering.
Why has no autopsy been released on Trayvon? That's public information. Was he shot in the chest or back? That's both simple and very telling. I know we will need to wait for months for this to shake out but for me there are good grounds for people to be both suspicious of the authorities and angry about how this case was felt with.
For the Martin's I feel nothing but sympathy.
Put this to trial so we can see the evidence and hear testimony about what happened; all of these contradictory descriptions of what happened need closer examination to find out what is factual.
Here we go again. Has anyone seen Trayvon facebook pictures? His pictures show him throwing gang signs. And his friends on there, the same. One of his friends pictures he is wearing colors bandanna over his mouth and throwing gang signs. Ya know, what's with that? If this kid is such a good kid??? I WOULD PUT THE LINK UP HERE BUT EVERY TIME I DO THEY DELETE IT. THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO SEE THE REAL TRUTH.
The problem here DD is that Zimmy didn't have his laptop with him that night. He didn't have a chance to check out this kids facebook pics to see who he was dealing with. So your comment is as useless as an anchor on an airliner.
Zimmy is on record though to 911 operator - "These ****** always get away". The young man shot was being identified as one of "these" just before his death. These *******? You can plant all the pretty flowers you want, but the ground is still filled with the manure you put there to grow them.
I couldn't find his facebook anywhere. I think you are lying. It also doesn't matter what Trayvon did or didn't do, or how tall he is, or what ever else. He was shot by someone who was very clearly stalking him.
I can show you just as many FB pictures of white boys, Latino boys and Asian boys dressed like gangbangers and "throwing gang signs." Kids think that stuff is cool, because it's rebellious. Every generation of teenagers has had their own brand of cool, and most people from previous generations have always thought they were bad kids. Trayvon Martin was on his high school football team and getting As and Bs. How many real gangbangers even attend school, let alone get good grades?
@ terriels I think the facebook has been pulled down (I read it was at the parents request) which I can understand as it would be flooded with comments. If you want to see the pictures you can see them on google images using the search trayvon martin and gold teeth (I have no clue why the gold teeth but this was posted on an earlier article and works). The pictures just look like a teenage kid. Yes, he does not look like the little pictures they keep showing in the media but he is teenage boy.
I did see that he was making signs with his hands but lots of kids make stupid pictures trying to look cool plus I have seen similar signs made by old fat white men with mullets.
Doesn't matter what was or was not on Trayvon's Facebook page. What matters is what was in Zimmerman's head at the time he killed. I suspect Zimmerman thinks much like you do. Appearance and stereotyping are all that are needed to follow in a vehicle with a gun anyone that falls under your/his radar of suspicion. There is no logical arc here, just bigoted assumptions.
Even Zimmerman in his calls to the police never states that he has seen Trayvon commit any crime. His report is that he "looks" like he's up to something and is "looking at houses". Imagine that, walking with a hoody on in the rain and "looking" around at the only things in sight, houses. If you review the police calls they are all about suspicions, black, hoody, hand in waist band, looking at houses, walking quickly. Not one incident that would make anyone believe a crime was in progress, well, except for a pathetic few that think like Zimmerman.
I'm sure you'd like Zimmerman to be a hero but he never will be. He will for the rest of his life be the man that killed an innocent 17 year old in a hoody on a rainy night packing Skittles and an ice tea. A man with a head full of stereotypes, hate, self important cop wanna be. Pathetic human being at best.
Trayvon is he one who availed himself of the "stand your ground" law. He defended himself from a stalker, Zimmerman, who Travyon perceived as a threat. (I would think so too if he was following me) And the tub of lard starts losing a fistfight so he pulls out his gun and kills the boy.
Arrest Zimmerman and try him in court.
The neighbor taking up for Zimmerman has a mugshot. He'd been arrested for domestic violence.
This neighbor taking up for Zimmerman has a mugshot where he was arrested for domestic violence.
As a law abiding American citizen, I think I'll excercise my right to own a handgun this week. To protect myself from other law-abiding American citizens no less.
We know he was a gangbanger but the brothers need some publicity, sympathy and welfare.
I heard a teenager yelling for help! REALLY!
Put the man on trial...either he will be exonerated or convicted, but with the evidence so far, Mr. Zimmerman certainly is a candidate for manslaughter. Unless he was actually interrupting a crime in progress, he was far and away the aggressor.
I find it funny that Trevor Martin is now being smeared...one only wonders how far you can rationalize killing another human being for nothing. Unfortunately that seems to be the condition in our race at the moment. We reward bad behavior, and the reward for living a good life? Heaven, if you believe that sort of thing.
The fact is that Zimmerman was told NOT to pursue Trayvon and he did it anyway. The fact is that Zimmerman was carrying a loaded gun and Trayvon was carrying Skittles and iced tea. The fact is that Zimmerman made over 40 9-1-1 calls reporting black males and was heard making racially derogatory comments. The fact is that Zimmerman was not tested for drugs/alcohol at the time of the arrest, nor was any trace evidence collected off of his clothing or gun. I'm not anywhere near the size of either man, but I'm betting I could inflict a serious bit of damage if I was being threatened by a man with a gun. The whole thing stinks of a good-ol'-boy cover up!
I so agree with you, WakeUp. A good ole boy coverup!!!
Why isn't MSNBC reporting on the eyewitness that says Martin was attacking Zimmerman?
Does MSNBC have a horse in this race that would lead them to deliberately ignore facts? I am having a hard time getting the full story about this incident.
Whatever happened to journalistic integrity? Is there ANYONE Americans can trust for the truth anymore?
"The average Alabama Concealed Carry Permit holder is white, obese, and almost three inches shorter than average. It is the archetypal insecure fat neurotic loser with a "short guy" chip on his shoulder. Psychologists refer to handguns among themselves as "penis extenders" and this pretty much seems to cover it."
I remember during a murder trial in NY in the 80's, where a neighborhood kid killed a female teenage neighbor and hid her body in the family basement. (Kelly Tinyes murder), the prosecutor used the phrase "the tragedy of short men". I never forgot that. The murderer in that case was short, stocky, violent, with a chip on his shoulder. It's a generalization for sure, but maybe there's some kind of weird mental health thing that makes a certain type of male behave this way. You never know. Your wife's research seems to support this. Interesting.
This story is a tragedy. A young life lost under very disturbing circumstances.